(no subject)

[uberreiniger]

I keep trying to get up the energy to post something. I've got a lot of thoughts I'd like to say swirling around in my head but they don't feel like coming out. I would like to address something that's been going around in my mind for a while and has been building in intensity. I really hope I don't offend anyone with this question, but my mind won't leave it alone.

This one is for the parents or those thinking about becoming them at some point: what made you decide to have kids and why? I'm genuinely curious. It seems as more and more time passes that the very idea of it makes less and less sense to me and I can't understand why anyone else would willingly do it. Maybe it's because all my life I've always looked at having children as something you do when you're "older" and I definately don't feel "older" yet. I still feel like I'm a kid even though I'm almost thirty. But a certain misanthropy taints my view as well and I don't like it. My attitude ranges from puzzled bewilderment on the best days to, on the worst days, the rather bitter, hostile view that the absolute last thing this planet needs is another fucking human being living on it.

Either way, it's a view that's completely negative and unhealthy. I need some positive views to balance it. Of course, I'd like to hear others' thoughts on the more negative aspects of parenthood as well. I hope my request and my thoughts have made sense. Thanks in advance to anyone who wants to answer.

On to my real life, it's pretty much revolving around the play. Waiting For Godot, despite being one of the most respected and analyzed plays of the 20th century is woefully underappreciated and misunderstood. I think most people only half-understand it and take it too much at face value. It gets called Absurdism when really, it's not absurd at all. Reading it might make it seem that way, but when you begin to act it out it all makes perfect sense. *shrug* Tonight's rehearsal was bad. We got stuck on act 2 where the two main characters cannot remember their lines at all. We open in a week now, so it's stressful for all involved. It was an easy rehearsal for me since I lay on the stage for most of the act and have no lines in it at all. But laying on sheets of chipboard atop a concrete floor for two hours has disadvantages of its own too.

On the home front, Mel turned in her two week notice at her retail job since she has an opprotunity for full-time hours at the library. There's no guarantee those full-time hours will stay there, but after much discussion we decided it was worth the risk. It will be better for us both in the long run and make it easier for us to spend time together more, which is a good thing.

And... before I knew it I had a very long and rambling post on my hands where I basically wound up saying all the things i thought were too much trouble to go to the effort of saying. Way to go me! The end.

Comments

[chade66.livejournal.com]

"This one is for the parents or those thinking about becoming them at some point: what made you decide to have kids and why? I'm genuinely curious. It seems as more and more time passes that the very idea of it makes less and less sense to me and I can't understand why anyone else would willingly do it. Maybe it's because all my life I've always looked at having children as something you do when you're "older" and I definately don't feel "older" yet. I still feel like I'm a kid even though I'm almost thirty. But a certain misanthropy taints my view as well and I don't like it. My attitude ranges from puzzled bewilderment on the best days to, on the worst days, the rather bitter, hostile view that the absolute last thing this planet needs is another fucking human being living on it."

Since I'm a parent, I'll take a swipe at this one. I always wanted to have children and honestly planned to have more than one. When I found out that I was pregnant, I was thrilled, my partner was not. We were already in the process of splitting up at the time and his father convinced him that I was just trying to get him to marry me. But I had no doubt in my mind that this was something I should do at the time I chose to do it. In fact, my partner and I discussed this seriously early on in our relationship and I told him what I would do in the event I should become pregnant. So when it happened (the odds get you sooner or later) I was 27 and my mother had been 32 when I was born. She was always saying that she was too old to do this or that and I didn't want that for my child/children.

After my daughter was born, I was too busy trying to keep my head above water financially to really consider having other children, but I don't regret it. She's a great kid and has brought a lot of peace and joy to my life as well as some well deserved and thoroughly enjoyed chaos, as much as I might bitch about it.

But its interesting to note that when I went to my college reunion last year, out of the twenty of us there, only four of us had children, I had one, one of us has six (he married a woman with two children, they had two of their own and adopted two, so he had two out of college and four under the age of six, two of whom are autistic [the adopted ones]), one of my other friends had two toddlers, my friend who is a college professor has two (at the time they were about 5-7) and the last had one then has two now. Of the group of us, two are not married at all, and have no intention of doing so. The rest of my friends have little to no interest in having children at all, one of my friends is very outspoken about it and frustrated that she cannot get the medical community to help her enforce her decision.

There are no right answers, just how life unfolds I think.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Well I'm going to keep fighting the odds every way I can! :) My mom had me in her 30's too. The only negative was her age contributed to her inability to have more children without risk to her life, hence I'm an only child. But being raised that way left me very open to the idea of having kids in my thirties, so if it happens it will happen then. I wouldn't want to go later than that though. I always think back to that joke by Bill Cosby: "By the time that child leaves home we will be ready to go to one!"

I'm glad being a parent brings you such happiness. It certainly shows in the way you speak about your child. Frankly I'd feel better about the whole thing if more parents showed as much joy as you do. As Ghandi might say, the reason I don't become a parent is because I have known too many parents.

[chade66.livejournal.com]

"I'm glad being a parent brings you such happiness. It certainly shows in the way you speak about your child. Frankly I'd feel better about the whole thing if more parents showed as much joy as you do. As Ghandi might say, the reason I don't become a parent is because I have known too many parents."

It really does, even when she drives me up the wall and sometimes she does. But then she will turn around and simply amaze me with her insight or generousity.

There were things that I did, rules that I decided upon when I had my daughter that were delibrately different than how my parents raised me. So I know I made some mistakes, which we both survived intact, but at least they were MY mistakes and not the ones I felt my parents made with me.

I don't think you ever truly know how you are going to react to a situation until it happens, and many people told me that having my daughter would change my life in ways I couldn't imagine and I have found that to be turn. I think how a person handles those changes makes all the difference in the world.

I made career decisions based on the fact that I was a single parent, choosing to avoid a line of work I found interesting and was pasionate about, or by not accepting jobs that were too unyieldingly demanding of my time. I don't regret it, I can still chase that career if I want too when my daughter is older, but now I have other things that drive me which are perhaps a better path for me in the long run.

That said, I am not sure that there is any perfect time to have kids, I think they come when they do, often at the most inconvenent or inopportune time. In Europe it is very common to wait into your late thirties and early forties to have children, most of my friends did. I think its mostly about what works for you and only you truly know what that is.

[kakita-shisumo.livejournal.com]

Kids just seem like something we want. (shrug) Though I'm still a little weirded out by the idea of being a dad.

Tell Mel good luck with the promotion!

[mellifera.livejournal.com]

It's not really a promotion. They just have more hours to give out right now. So, yeah, I wish :)

[fallingtearpoet.livejournal.com]

Hey, does this mean you might have Sunday evenings free? 'Cause, you know, I have this RPG I'm running...

Wanna be a dinosaur?

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Out of everyone I know, you're the one I can probably see as a dad the easiest. And I think you'll make a great dad.

[chade66.livejournal.com]

It took me about two years to get used to being called "Mom"! I kept looking around for my mother.

[ksracxe.livejournal.com]

I wonder the exact same thing. I sit and think "what would the world be like if there was a miniature Steph out there?" and then everything comes to me all at once: the war going on, crowded schools and poor education, I wont be able to handle the responsibility, I'm too poor to support this person when I can't handle a checking account
but there's something else. Something underneath it .. that just ... feels dirty. Maybe it's my inherent loathing for humans that is causing it, because I am sort of disgusted by the fact that no matter what gender my child is or how they turn out - they grow inside me and then come out - so much for feminine pride, huh?
During that thoughtwave I also experience feelings for the child - would they hate me for bringing them into this shit world and then move away like I did? Would I be able to handle putting all of that out there just to have them leave and not speak to me again?

My mother always asks me if I am going to provide her with grandchildren. She just doesn't understand. I don't want children because I don't want to be my mother. She had me when she wasn't ready to have children, and I don't want to repeat that. I was isolated, lonely while growing up - because even then I didn't think the world was worth paying attention to.

There are good things about having kids I suppose - but aside from cute little drawings of "mommy and kitty" on the fridge, I don't know what they are :(

And yes, the job thing w/Mel is a very good thing. I didn't get my coach job, but I *did* get the shift 1030-7 and my hours will be more in tune with Evan's now - we will still not be able to carpool, and there will still be days when I get home before him, but I won't have to go to bed so early anymore - and we can watch conan together again :)

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

I used to take that stance too, that I wouldn't want to bring a child to this mess of a world. But when put in perspective, even as shitty as it is, (and it's a mess,) the world is still a better place right now then it has been any time in the last thousand years, at least for people of European descent. We got rid of that whole plague, filth, and dying at the age of 28 thing. Unfortunately we got rid of a lot of natives in Africa and North and South America in the process. They were having a pretty good time till they met us.

I've gotten way off track. Your reasons are very valid and we have a lot in common. I don't feel confident enough to be a parent. I can't afford to support one. And I felt a lot of isolation in my childhood. I was bullied a lot and it left me thinking children aren't that great. Thankfully, my parents don't pressure me, but I know they'd like grandchildren even if they don't say it. It's only natural, I guess. And that makes me feel bad even though it shouldn't.

[ksracxe.livejournal.com]

... oh and yes, the last thing this planet needs is another fucking human being living on it

;)

[skynock.livejournal.com]

I've found myself talking a lot about the idea of having kids, I use to always want kids, now I'm questioning my reasons. It's really been weird.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Or just a natural progression as one moves from one stage of life to another.

[cherith.livejournal.com]

I never thought I'd be one of those people that thought having kids sounding like something I wanted to do. Being married, and with that one person I want to be with, makes those thoughts seem a lot easier, more right.

One of the big things that's I think about a lot is the current state of our world. A lot of people choose not to bring another living person into this chaos we live in. However, in my mind, I think about all those people out there, having kids and not raising them right. Or raising them in beliefs that would shock most of us. And I think that maybe bringing my own little person into the world might not be a bad idea. At least, trying to give the future some balance. *shrugs*

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

I never thoguht of it that way. That's a very good counter argument.

[rustie25.livejournal.com]

I cant even begin to put into words why I want to have kids. But I am a person who gets weepy even holding a baby. They are amazing to me. The way they think, the things they say...and I work with some of the worst of them. They still make me laugh. It is that instinctual thing I guess.

However, I know more and more people who don't want to have kids. It seems to be happening more often. There is nothing wrong with that. If you arn't sure you want them, don't have them. They are expensive, deprive you of sleep and can be very stressful. And then there is always the fear that you are going to screw them up...

So, to sum up, I have no idea why I want them but I do. :) Hope I was of help ;)

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

I think you hit on something really valid there: if you're not sure you want them, don't have them. The way I see it, once you're a parent, that's your job. You don't get a life of your own. You have to be completely prepared to live 24 hours a day for the care and good of another person. I've seen the consequences of half-assed parenting too many times to believe it's anything less than an all-or-nothing proposal.

I can't give that. I like having money and spending it. Sleeping all day or going to a movie if I want to. I like not having to put a lot of thought or effort into what's for dinner. I don't live much beyond the end of my nose, you might say. Maybe that makes me short-sighted and selfish, but at least I'm honest enough to admit that it makes me not ready to take that ultimate step of parenting.

[rustie25.livejournal.com]

You are unselfish enough to know that you arn't ready to be a parent. Some people want the kids for all the selfish reasons, but want to keep doing things like spending all their money on nonessentials, sleeping all day and going out when they want. They are the selfish ones, wanting all the good feelings a child brings you without all the committment.

[chade66.livejournal.com]

It doesn't mean that you have to give up living your life, it does mean that you have to make an effort to include your child/children in your life. It might mean getting a babysitter so you can go to a concert, but it gives you an excuse to go to many, many themeparks! We ended up at Worlds of Fun three times last year.

[adonijah74.livejournal.com]

I love kids. My daughter provides just the sunshine I need on days when I just feel that dark thunderhead cloud oppressively reminding me of how much life can suck.

Having children reminds us of what's really important in life. As adults we get so caught up in our careers and ambitions and the latest trends and such. In the end, it's all such pap, really.

Love, laughter, companionship and family (or the lack thereof)...those are the things that last. Those are the things that for better or worse, make us who we are.

When it comes to children, they represent who we once were, but many of us somehow lost somewhere along the way.

I can't tell you the kind of joy it brings when my daughter laughs or when she makes me something out of paper and glue, markers and tape. Or how she will bring home a rock she found in the school yard an give it to me saying that she thought I'd like it because it looked like it might be a dinosaur fossil.

They have such wonder and absorb so much of life that we just don't anymore.

When you have kids, if you are a good parent, I think your child helps bring some of that back into your life.

And as a parent, you get a chance to help your child in the way that perhaps your parents did not help you, using your childhood as a guide to help them make good choices based on the knowledge you give them. And that benefits society too.

Besides, as Christians, God tells us to be fruitful and multiply. After all, we are His kids, and one could ask, why does He want us?

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Go ahead and e-mail. I'm curious what's on your mind.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

The yahoo one for me, please.

[uawildcatgrl.livejournal.com]

While I adore children...I really have no desire to birth any.

[elvinborn.livejournal.com]

okay the camp counselor/sunday school teacher viewpoint:
kids can be a lot of fun. They see the world so differently. There is a since of wonder in children because things that are so old and been there done that for adults are completely new to them. They ask questions you would never think to ask.

then there's the part where they look to you for everything. OKay. so that's got good and bad sides to it. here is this little person that thinks you are a god. mostly. that goes away as they get older. this is why many people prefer dogs. (that, and dogs are way faster to house break). you get a chance to shape who they are, and then when you've done your part (hopefully well) you watch this person you've created go out into the world and conquer. You wouldn't believe the pride in even the smallest achievement of a child you helped shape.

kids are loud. babies are messy and loud, and they'll show you just how little sleep an adult human actually has to have in a week. Then they throw tantrums, they wet the bed, they get sent home from nursery school for pinching the other kids. Followed by wanting to do everything for themselves and being embarrassed that you want to hug them. but they still look to you, and they love you in spite of themselves. Even when they're teenagers and filled with rebellion and spitfire.


or you could say that some people have kids because they got bored with it just being the two of them.

and I'm not even sure I want kids (most of the time) ;)

[rustie25.livejournal.com]

wow..I like how you put it :)

[elvinborn.livejournal.com]

hee! thanks. I missed a few things, but it was getting a bit long, and I had to be somewhere. :D

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Very well put indeed. I think we're a long way away from being bored with just the two of us. Maybe that's why it's on my mind so much right now, just because it seems like we have such a huge world to explore together right now. Why would we want to cut the journey short with the hard world of parenting?

[elvinborn.livejournal.com]

I still say I left out a couple of points. Ah comments and their un-editability. ;)

too right. it is always better to spend at least a couple of years (maybe more. often more) as a dynamic duo before you go adding the stress and life-changes of a kid.

[catlin.livejournal.com]

Cory and I did not choose to have kids. I had actually been told they would not happen. Fate decided the doctor was wrong, though our second child took work.

[duendegrrl.livejournal.com]

When things are more stable financially for us, Adam and I plan to have a few of those little scruffy things. I'd like to think that whatever kid(s) Adam and I could raise would help to make the world a bit better... rather than adding to the chaos. I'd like to leave the world a better place, and if that means adding one more reasonably decent human being to the mix, well, I'd be honored. I've always loved babies and kids... and I'm rather the mothering sort (you might have noticed my caretaking instincts with our overabundance of pets).