I don't doubt this will start a firestorm, but...

[uberreiniger]

...it's more or less exactly how I feel.

http://www.jesuswouldbeashamedofyou.com/

First posted by catlin

Comments

[rolodexpropaga.livejournal.com]

If I were more of a Christian, I would completely agree.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

That's okay. Since you're less of one you can just agree a little.

[rolodexpropaga.livejournal.com]

You know, as I get older, I get more and more sympathic to Christianity but more angry at how it has all turned out. I don't know if I want to be around if the Y'shua (or Mr. Jessie bit) gets back around. Sure, you're all going to get forgiven, but only after a really, really stern and firy talkin' to.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

But really, isn't that the way forgiveness in general usually works?

[rolodexpropaga.livejournal.com]

True. I think most people are going to burn in this regard, but then Mr. Jesie bit will forgive them.

[kakita-shisumo.livejournal.com]

Can I get an amen?

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

AMEN!

[rustie25.livejournal.com]

AMEN BABY! AMEN!

[kakita-shisumo.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah - awesome icon, by the by.

[act-3.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting that.

[freyjas-child.livejournal.com]

That link unfortunately reminds me a lot of what I come across when I do visit the US:/ And yes...from what tiny bit I know of Christianity and Jesus. Jesus would be ashamed!

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

You repeatedly run into that while in the U.S. Wow. You have really rotten luck!

[mr-dark.livejournal.com]

I doubt you'll start a firestorm, but I do have issues with it. One big one, really.

The problem here is the same as those who draw lines between the Klan and Christianity. (Which shows up in a cameo here as well.) It's the same argument that Muslims make in regards to Islamofascists, except in this case, it's true.

Christianity, unlike Islam, is a very well defined religion with many different sects and denominations, but a well-know core set of beliefs. I believe Islam is the same way, but they have good publicists who insist 'modern' Islam just ignores all that 'kill all Jews and infidels' stuff, while their backward cousins 'misinterpret' and bomb everything that moves.

That core set of beliefs is not reflected in any way, not even in some sly, allegorical way. It's just not there. The people on that page, the Fred Phelps type, the Klan...there is absolutely no semblence of ANY version of Christianity in them. Thus, a comparison to those of us who do follow the tenets of the faith is not only unfair, it's a little wacky.

This would be akin to me and a bunch of other lily-white crackers bopping into the middle of an NAACP meeting and trying to push motions on the floor regarding how much whitey keeps us down. It's just absurd, we aren't black. Well, those cat's ain't Christian, either. I know that's the -spirit- of the page you're linking to, but it still plays their game.

Jesus wouldn't be ashamed of them.

Why?

Because He doesn't know them.

Leviticus 19:18 Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

Mark 12:31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no commandment greater than these.

Old AND New Testament. (Don't get me started on your icon, but these should pretty much trump any Scriptural debates the yahoos on that page could ever offer.)

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

You don't need to tell me how much those people aren't Christian. Unfortunately there are many MANY people who likewise aren't Christians who, thanks to those people, think it's exactly what Christianity is. And I'm all for anything which calls attention to the fact that those people _aren't_ what Christians are; hence I think that page is a step in the right direction.

And what exactly is wrong with the icon?

[mr-dark.livejournal.com]

Like I said, don't get me started. :)

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

No, get started. You brought it up, now I want to hear what you have to say.

[mr-dark.livejournal.com]

It's going to have to wait until I -don't- have food poisoning. Ughhh.....

WTF?

[yaqui.livejournal.com]

I understand about Mexicans but what did Negros or dogs ever do to anybody?

Re: WTF?

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

The Bob kept trying to steal my food on Sunday. That's pretty unforgiveable.

Re: WTF?

[ghaidin.livejournal.com]

*pops in* IMHO, Mexicans are OK also...

[adonijah74.livejournal.com]

I'm not impressed at all with any of the stuff the page pointed out.

Firstly, 1/2 the photos were photoshopped (it was obvious to me anyway). Secondly, it's just more watered-down, "can't we all just get along" nonsense from someone who thinks that man is basically good and that we all need to have a group hug and sing a song together (this too was obvious to me).

Phelps, and others of his ilk, are not representatives of Jesus. People that see them as such are 100% as stupid as they are.

However, statements such as "Homosexuality is Sin" is completely accurate. It's clearly unnatural, and it IS an abomination. God created the opposite sexes for a reason, and it was not strictly for pro-creation (as some REALLY weird people believe).

There are many passages in the scriptures that describe sex as a form of gratification between lovers. However, it was never God's design, but a perversion of satan that homosexuality be equated to the same holy union between a man & a woman.

If anyone actually believes that one man sticking his penis in another man's butthole is "love" or is "normal", and that God is OK with that, then that person has allowed satan to gain a stronghold in their life and have exchanged the truth for a lie.

It is no more natural for that act to occur than it is for a woman to have sex with a donkey, a man to have sex with a dog, or for any other twisted sexual practices to take place.

The only thing that homosexuality has accomplished is disease, insanity and death. Gay Bowel Syndrome, AIDS, a virulent antibiotic-resistant form of the Staphylococcus aureus bacteria is on the rise among gay men, anal cancer, etc.

Regarding lesbians...to start with, they face a higher breast cancer risk. One study of lesbians found that: "63% of the lesbians had never been pregnant...[And] Not having children increases a woman's breast cancer risk by between two to six times." Not having children also "may be a risk factor for ovarian cancer and may be implicated in endometrial cancer as well."

Another study found bacterial vaginosis occuring in 33% of the lesbians but only in 13% of heterosexual women, and found that: "Cervical cytology abnormalities were uncommon but only found in the lesbians." (Those abnormalities may be precursors to cervical cancers.)

Another study of lesbians found a "relatively high prevalence of the viral STDs, herpes simplex & human papillomavirus [HPV]." And according to another: "Genital HPV infection and squamous intraepithelial lesions are common among women who are sexually active with women."
(I can give references for these studies as well if you like)

Look, there is no way to justify the kind of hate that Phelps or the KKK spew out in Jesus' name. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath-water here.

God does not "hate fags". But neither does God approve of what we tolerate & allow to be heralded or approved of in society.

The fact that we are living in the age of grace doesn't excuse us from calling sin what it is. Nor does it excuse us from being salt and light and exposing it as we believers are called to do. The question is...do we show them God's truth in love or do we ourselves pervert God and push them further away with hateful rhetoric and demonstrations?

Your icon by the way, is exactly the kind of out-of-context sloganism that the Phelps crowd likes to use (except in reverse) in my opinion. None of those "abominations" listed are relevant as sin. I can cut them down one by one if you'd like. (?)

I know a couple of gay people at my job. I don't hate them. In fact, I get along fine with them & I'd like to see them come to know Jesus someday. We've laughed about stuff and I talk to one of them pretty regularly. They don't agree with me, but I don't come in to work carrying a sign that says "God hates fags" or something stupid like that, so they know I'm not some crazy yahoo with an inflammatory personal agenda. However, they know that I won't back down when it comes to the Word and what I believe whe it comes to their "lifestyle" (i.e. sin).

Hey, you know I think you're a cool guy (at least I hope you know that), but I think you are way off here and I'm prepared to defend my position on it.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Well that's fair. You can cut down all those abominations one by one and I can cut down homosexuallity as one. And all that stuff about diseases is a flawed argument you can apply to virtually everything. People in third world countries where modern water treatment isn't available are more likely to die of lead poisoning, or a host of other diseases for that matter. Are they sinning against God? And what did that 13% of heterosexual women do to get bacterial vaginosis. They must have REALLY fucked up!

I know you think I'm way off on pretty much everything I believe religiously and that's fine. You're entitled to that and you may be right. God will judge. But the beliefs I hold are the result of years of spiritual reflection and prayer. Maybe they'll still turn out to be wrong in the end, but even if that's the case, please understand that I did not come to them lightly.

[mr-dark.livejournal.com]

That sums it up pretty well, I think. I don't know that I'd have gone to the statistics to prove the point (simply because statistics can always be manipulated and these days, everyone has a 'poll' that claims something 'statistically' that's absolute nonsense) but everything else is rock solid. It's a matter of studying scripture to more depth than just the words in one or two English translations. Context, people, context! (That's a preview of where I'm headed once I feel human again and go into the whole icon thing, Ube, so you have a head start.) :)

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

I am all about context. Context is the whole point of the icon. So I stand ready.

[duendegrrl.livejournal.com]

Context is, as stated, the point.

And anyway, what the heck's wrong with thinking people are basically good and having group hugs and sing alongs? Damn, that's my idea of heaven right there. Love thy neighbor and all that.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, that world requires people like this to leave God alone and let Him do His job as He sees fit. And some people have no sense of spiritual purpose if they're not constantly trying to do God's job for Him.

[mellifera.livejournal.com]

It continues to boggle my mind how so many people can be arrogant enough to define God and religion for others and yet, at the same time, be too insecure to allow anyone else to have their own interpretations and opinions.

[kakita-shisumo.livejournal.com]

Context is so much the point of the icon that they are all from the same Book (i.e., Leviticus). *All of them.* And don't get me started on the New Convenant either. Jesus never said a Word about homosexuality, any more than he said something about abortion, female priests or any one of several other hot button socio-religious topics.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Well, I thought the icon was pretty straightforward and self-explanatory, but given the amount of confusion it keeps causing in some people's minds I'm beginning to think it may require a post all it's own where I break it down and spoon-feed it to the masses.

Then again, what am I talking about? That's how people love to have their religion!