Highlights from my election night party

[uberreiniger]

A few memorable quotes.

Me: "Wow, they sure do like Bush in Wisconsin."
Punk Rock Chick Whose Name I Didn't Catch: "THEY ALSO BEAT GAYS IN WISCONSIN!!!"

NOTE: Wisconsin is where the infamous Matthew Sheppard murder took place. I think it is unfair and disgusting to blame all of Wisconsin for the actions of three dumb jocks.

Amy: "I can't go to bed without Ohio!"

I was the only person there who doesn't work with Adam and Amy at Barnes & Noble. I was also the only Bush-voter in the room. But considering how bookstore employees are reknowned for being ultra-left pro-anarchy Marxist liberals, this was unsurprising ;) I had a good time, honestly. I made fun of Bush as much as everyone else, because, let's face it, it's easy to do. We ate pizza, watched the Daily Show, and played Scrabble. If only all political discourse could be so civil.

Now is part where elections get ugly. I'm already seeing posts from people wailing about how they want to "leave the country!" and how we're "living in a theocracy!" To them I say, with all the gentleness and sympathy for their frustration that I can muster, you would not know what a theocracy was if it were stoning you in the street for making eye contact with a man you aren't married to. And neither would I, and neither would nearly anyone else in this country and I hope for the love of everyone's gods we NEVER have to find out. This is a country where people vote along their religious lines, true. And that makes people of some faiths happier than it does others, but we are FAR from being a theocracy.

The other statement about leaving the country.... that I have a little more problem with, simply because I find it completely insulting to the countless people who have lost their lives trying to GET to this country. (You might have heard of some of them. They hail from ACTUAL theocracies.) Go and do as you must, but do you have any idea how many people would gladly die to be where you are? Who have died?

It's not about who you voted for, it's about taking the time to realize that in spite of everything that has gone wrong and everything that will, that on our worst day, we still have it a lot better here than many people on this forsaken planet can ever imagine. And if you live here and are reading this, I would urge you to remember and take comfort in that, no matter how dark or bright the days and years ahead may seem.

Comments

[winegodeatsyou.livejournal.com]

I don't share the democrats whining view, but I also will state, we won't stay in the priveledged position we are in if the trends that set this election up continue. (Moral values as the primary motivating factor in voting is dangerous).

It's not dark yet, but it's getting there. I, for one, am loyal opposition to either candidate and I realize that the more natural state of men is abject fear of their leaders (which is not the case in this country).

But there is a small flaw in your logic as you point out the great flaw in the logic of those who fear theocracy: the relative levels of outside the Republic don't change the direness of any step within it. Sort, the barbarians in the Roman empire had it much rougher than even Roman slaves, but Rome's embrace of the Empire spelled it end anyway and the great equalizator of history stepped in. Small steps pave the way--the same could have been said of the Islamist revolution in Iran--now one believe it was possible even though the Shah had made decisions that would allow up for the decade prior.

I agree that the hyperbole of leaving the country--one said members of both the Neo-left and the Neo-right is an insult--but to say an election is not about who you voted for, is a bit disengenerous.

[winegodeatsyou.livejournal.com]

All that said, I want to beat the whiners.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Better get started then. It looks like you might be at it a while ;)

[winegodeatsyou.livejournal.com]

I have no doubt. Just like I will try to whip those who think America as a whole gave Republics a universal policy mandate. But the whiners are more numerous at the moment.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Where did I say the election wasn't about who you voted for? And how is it possible to cast a vote *without* making a moral decision? Let's use, as an example, embryonic stem cell research. If you vote against it because it destroys embryos which are already individual human lives, that is a moral decision. If you vote for it because it could save or improve thousands of human lives, that is also a moral decision.

I for one, didn't see the religious trend as even being a substantial issue in this elecion. The huge issues were and are Iraq, the economy, and job loss. Those are things people of the same faith can have HUGE differences of opinions on. There will always be Christian zealots who vote Republican every time and atheist zealots who vote Democrat every time. In a way, they're the easiest voting blocs for their opponents to compensate for because they are so bloody predictable and changing their minds is well nigh impossible. Like I said, a lot of people vote with what they feel is in keeping with the faith they follow, and there is nothing wrong with that. But just because they use that as a guideline to making decisions doesn't mean an issue that affects them deeply and personally won't lead them to make a decision you wouldn't expect.

Are we Rome with barbarians at the gates? Not my prediction to make.

[winegodeatsyou.livejournal.com]

We are the new Rome, but we don't totally act like her. Despite what everyone says, a win for Bush is not a win for Empire... but it does seem to lean that way. We are slouching towards Empire with Iraq (not necessarily in ridding the world of another mass-murdering fuckhead, but in not being able to turn it over to its own people totally without the threat of civil war thus having to maintain a presence there indefinitely). Now, whatever you're take on empire is, we do have barbarians at the gates. Islamofascists are the crudest representation of the violence inherant in Islam's religious system.

A difference between Christian and Pagan thinking is simple: I (and most pagans) see civics/ethics (actions involving the life or death of the community) as seperate from morality (decisions on a sexual/privacy nature). Now, that may not be the classical view.

[mr-dark.livejournal.com]

I had a lengthy conversation with Jenn about this tonight. What you're both missing is that there is an element within America that is threatened by any appearance of conviction. In short, displayed faith terrifies them. Bush is a man of faith who acts according to that faith. Because he believes, because he has conviction, he stands behind his actions with unshakeable confidence regardless of what his detractors say.

This scares the willies out of many, as any display of such faith will...because it makes them confront themselves. They see any act founded on faith as a direct assault upon the faithless, thus the cries of 'theocracy'. It isn't an argument over whether issues like stem cells or abortion or gay marriage are moral or not, but rather an argument that -any- issue that is decided based on morality has no place in government. They truly believe that anything moral, anything that you can't quantify with numbers, is absolute anathema to American government.

Why? Because they are frequently faithless and without strong moral conviction...often their only strong moral conviction is the righteous indignation that says 'don't you tell me what to do' to anyone who attempts to curb their behavior. Their ideal world is one of grays where anything is allowed, where right and wrong are all an issue of circumstance and everything can be blamed on someone else.

So yeah, any step in the direction of morality on the basis of faith is absolutely terrifying for some of these folks. That, in and of itself, is reason enough to combat them in the political realm and seek their defeat, as it is that very same faith and moral conviction that the country is based on.

[winegodeatsyou.livejournal.com]

True, people are frequently faithless... just as Catholics who vote on abortion and not war since BOTH are frowned up by the Papacy, they side with what is easy for them instead of what is truthful (that they really cannot support either candidate and be in line with Rome).

They are faithless, but then again, it's easy to accuse one side of nihilism.

To be honest, my faith is why I don't support EITHER candidate or either party, I don't compromise it for anything.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

You have surmised the situation quite accurately. I believe it is possible to stand by your personal moral convictions as a leader and not impose your beliefs on others who don't share them. But as you said, the anti-faiths are so terrified of faith that they equate the mere _sight_ of a person who has it as an assault on themselves.

For the record, I don't think Bush is good because he is a Christian, or that that stops him from making terrible mistakes. But I do admire the fact that once he says or does something, he stands behind it - which is the sole reason why he won my vote instead of my party's candidate, John Kerry.

[mellifera.livejournal.com]

You're right. Faith is terrifying to those of us who actually think for ourselves and have to take responsibility for our own decisions rather than just saying "god told me to do this."

[mellifera.livejournal.com]

Christian does not equal moral, and non-christian does not equal immoral.

I think the same thing about Bush that I thought about the southern baptist lady I worked for back in 2000. I think he's acting in his own interests and using his "faith" to back it up.

[act-3.livejournal.com]

Um...no.

As one of the "faithless" I feel sort of insulted here. I'm agnostic. I don't need religion as a moral compass.

My beef is with someone who makes decisions based on what the invisible guy in the cloud allegedly said thousands of years ago before the internet and R-rated movies.

My beef is with someone who makes decisions based on a faith that believes that at some point in time, two nudists in a magical garden took dietary advice from a talking snake.

Pardon my French, but I want religion the fuck out of my government. Abstinence does not work. Abortion is a necessary evil. I want a president that uses the facts, uses science, and not an antiquated illogical morality.

People don't need religion as a moral compass and when we see a leader that's using it as exactly that, even aggressively so, it IS because we're afraid of faith, because faith is unrealistic, illogical, and has no basis in the pragmatism that our society requires. This guy is a maniac at the wheel, careening us in some horrible direction 'cause he thinks we've got guardian angels.

[mr-dark.livejournal.com]

Here here. As a fellow in the conservatism community said after posting a bunch of select quotes stating what you're describing here, just don't question their patriotism (as they vow that they hate America, are ashamed to be Americans, and want to leave America)...they get testy when you do that. :)

[winegodeatsyou.livejournal.com]

Well, I saw Neo-cons who said the same thing. Don't question their patriotism either. But whoever says such idiocy--and it will probably be more on the left as that is part of their nature--they need to be slapped around.

As for patriotism, to quote Samuel Buckler, "patriotism is often the last refuge of scoundrels".

That said, may the all possible forms of divinity bless America.

[mr-dark.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I've yet to see anyone remotely conservative cry out 'I hate America! I'm leaving! I want to get out, I'm ashamed to live here!' It's kind of against our very nature...hence the moniker 'conservative'.

As for the worn-out Buckler quote, any who use it as a blanket condemnation of patriotism do so at the expense of their intellectual currency. The essence of the quote is clearly to point out that scoundrels do indeed often hide terrible acts under the cloud of patriotism...but a true patriot, one who loves his country and would die for it, would certainly never sully the concept with such behavior.

True patriots also get a little cranky when people so easily claim to hate the country they love and talk about how much they wish to leave it...yet always stick around and have no problem partaking in the bounties of that hideous, shameful nation. Hypocrisy is never an appetizing dish.

[winegodeatsyou.livejournal.com]

In October, Ann Coulter told Bill O'Reilly that she would move to Australia if Kerry wins. So with that in mind, a major "conservative" candidate said it on television. Now, Coulter is not a true conservative, but then again, I don't think most of the conservative pundits are actual conservatives.

Also a "True patriot" is a complicated concept, for example, does a true patrio battle for Scotland or for England in UK?

Not that I disagree with you about the hyprocrisy of the reactionary left...

but I distrust both sides equally.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Goes hand in hand with that other tired aphorism: "sarcasm is the last refuge of the weak." So are guns, for that matter, but just like a gun, sarcasm is awesomely powerful in the hands of the strong and wise.

And then there's that other line of crap: "it was an honor just to be nominated." Yeah, right. Anyone who says that is lying.

clarify for me please?

[stitchedsutures.livejournal.com]

perhaps i was on crack at the time since it was my first year of college, but i believe that the Matthew Shepard thing happened in Laramie, Wyoming? I remember everyone getting all wacky up in northern colorado after that, and i believe it happened just a bit up north in the Land of Cows. Let me know if i'm wrong, but that's how my memory remembers the story.

and thanks for writing to those ingrates who are already posting about 'OMG i'm SO moving to Canada RIGHT NOW because of all the terrible *CHRISTIANS* who are going to make this country hell for us RIGHT NOW".. that sorta shit pisses me off for the same reasons. Yes, some things didnt turn out like i wanted them to either this election, but i have to agree with the heated post made by batchix just a bit ago.
And, if you don't like it, we sure as hell arent going to try and keep you here in this country. And as you said, i'm sure there are many people who would be willing to take your place as a college student with a roof over their head and the choice of where they want to go with who they want to go with on Saturday night. I get so tired of people not realizing that for all its problems (and every place in the world has 'em since its run by us) that its still a pretty sweet deal to live here. Those people's whining falls upon deaf ears when i hear it.

Re: clarify for me please?

[batchix.livejournal.com]

It DID happen in Wyoming. That's why they had the signature thingy at the Tornado club in Ft Collins. :/

Re: clarify for me please?

[batchix.livejournal.com]

And that's why drag-queen-jon was moaning like a stuck pig all night... acting like he actually new the guy. e_e He didn't. He just wanted to syphon some sympathy and get laid.

Re: clarify for me please?

[stitchedsutures.livejournal.com]

Thank you:) that night at the Tornado Club was exactly what i was remembering.. how everyone was so irate that night. Glad to know that i somehow wasnt "inventing" memories again :X

btw, i love your irate post. right on sista.

Re: clarify for me please?

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Yep, I was mistaken. It was Wyoming. I just got my wires crossed when I typed it.

[cpk.livejournal.com]

Matthew Shepard was beaten to death in Wyoming, not Wisconsin.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Yes, that was my mistake on my part.

[dayglowdave.livejournal.com]

just like in Star Wars :)