Let none of us be saved. Not one.

[uberreiniger]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/14021621/teenage_holy_war/1

Most of you (and most people who've already posted it on livejournal,) will sneer at this and shake your head in sorrow, bewliderment, and anger. For me... well, what can I say? I spent my teen years going to these kind of things. I'm not the same person I was then. I don't view God the way most of Christian America views Him. But things like this... I remember and I know what the kids there are going through.

I'd like to add this statement. Rolling Stone loves to look down its nose whenever it talks about anything relating to Christianity or any thing relating to morality. As a magazine they're entertaining, but they should never be mistaken for objective journalism.

As a Christian I do believe the world is a place full of evil. And I do believe that if there are things in your life that are having a negative effect on you, you should give them up. Those are messages that have always been central to Christianity and that people don't like to hear. The man running the event in the article might be a zealot with delusions of demagoguery, but in that if nothing else, I feel he is correct. His definition of a Christian and some of his statistics are another matter...

What I don't believe is right is for people to decide they are sinning when they enjoy A&W root beer just because somebody on a stage told them that everything outside the boundaries they establish as being safe is bad and evil. If God wants you to get something out of your life, He'll get it out. And He doesn't need a headbanging light show to do it. It's too easy to mistake a perceived authority as the voice of God and there are too many people too eager to do it.

I had a point I was going to make but I'm tired and my train of thought is wandering. A few years ago I felt it I was following God's wishes when I gave up L5R for while due to the fact that I couldn't control my temper when I lost a game. I took a long step back and now I enjoy the game without being an obnoxious ass. I just saw the effect on my own life and relationships and did what I felt the right or godly thing to do would be. It's that easy. That's all you have to do. And that's why people who arbitrarily give up things on another's say-so are so often bitterly disappointed in the results they achieve.

Comments

[batchix.livejournal.com]

I don't agree with the guy's methods or his ideas... Our religion isn't about violence, it's about forgiveness. Jesus did get mad. He got mad at the money changers and lenders in the temple... which is sort of what this guy is doing. How much does it cost per kid to go to something like this with it's light shows and surround sound? IYC was $400 a kid plus the means to GET to colorado. And that was just for praise and worship, room and board. Most of the life changing religious experiences I've had were one on one with God, or at the tabernacle at Durley Camp with all the bird crap. Anymore this, along with main stream Christian music, feels like commercialism crap brand christianity. But instead of competing just for your money they want your money and your soul. And if what's "in" gets your attention then they'll use what's "in" and say that theres is somehow not sinful because there's no sex. Uhuh. Right. It's like telling kids "don't do drugs because drugs aren't cool!" That works right up till your like 10. And then it starts being a conscious choice about not screwing up your life. I know a lot of what I'ms aying stems from my bitterness towards the church I grew up in and Greenville College(they openly admit one of their goals for you being at the college is for you to walk away married!). But his statements like, "His Christian code requires a "wartime mentality": a "survival orientation" and a readiness to face "real enemies." The queers and communists, feminists and Muslims, to be sure, but also the entire American cultural apparatus of marketing and merchandising, the "techno-terrorists" of mass media, doing to the morality of a generation what Osama bin Laden did to the Twin Towers." Uh, no. I don't want my kid to grow up to think like that. That's ignorant, foolish and damning... and it makes me ashamed and sad.

To me I think it's more important to read what it says in the Bible, think for yourself, and not to cause more harm than good. Yeah he may help save a 100 kids out of that stadium, but he also just turned perhaps thousands of people away from ever wanting to even listen about Christ. There's a way to not piss people off and still get the word of God out, but it's too hard for most people because it comes with honest sacrifice and a lot of patience. NOT branding a cowhide on stage and imping pop culture.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

That cow died for your sins!

But his statements like, "His Christian code requires a "wartime mentality": a "survival orientation" and a readiness to face "real enemies." The queers and communists, feminists and Muslims, to be sure, but also the entire American cultural apparatus of marketing and merchandising, the "techno-terrorists" of mass media, doing to the morality of a generation what Osama bin Laden did to the Twin Towers."

This was Rolling Stone's editorialization, although I do not doubt that the terms "wartime mentality", "survival orientation" and "real enemies" are his own. They're common in this movement. I guess they make weak-minded people feel important. And the very presence of such people should tell you something right there. God has no interest in keeping people weak-minded. He takes the weak and makes them strong.

[stitchedsutures.livejournal.com]

I had issues with pretty much the same things. While there is NOTHING wrong with trying to get kids motivated to participate and be fired up about their religious beliefs, I did find that some of what was going on reeked of commercialism itself. Christianity shouldn't have to be repackaged in a "cool" wrapper for kids because what is "cool" never stays the same even for a couple of years! The motivation needs to come from within rather than to feel empowered by being part of a vocal group. That's EASY. That takes little to no courage!

Sort of like those virginity pledges that lots of HSs or churches have kids sign when they are still teens, it is often abandoned later when it's no longer considered "cool" by the people around you. And that changes a lot, especially once you go from being a teen to a young adult who succumbs to the "But I'm 18 and I'm considered an "adult" now and it's myyyyyyy life and myyyyyyyy choice!"

I also think it's interesting (speaking of sexuality) how these days kids like to act as if they are still being chaste and moral so long as they don't have the actual OMG PENIS IN THE VAGINA sex. Blow jobs, hand jobs, lots of other stuff is okay, right? it's not actually sex, right? We're not breaking our virginity vows, right? Then we can continue to do what we're doing and not feel so bad. I'd like to see that menality blown out of the water, but some of this "real enemy" talk I do find scary. Especially when kids are taking it from what a person said rather than from what God said in the Bible itself.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

I'm sure I told you about my friend who was having anal sex for a long time and thought herself still a virgin. I'm pretty sure the hymen has no executive power once you've taken it up the ass. It is a lame duck hymen. Fortunately she eventually realized the massive flaws in her logic.

[ghaidin.livejournal.com]

woah. And I thought Clinton's tap dance around the line was up there.

And my mom's friend making us wait until 00:01 to eat that pizza with pepperoni on it, because -hey- that's not Friday anymore? A wannabe.

does the bible have anything specific to say about anal sex? Would that be a form of onanism? *scratches head*
I know any activity aimed to arousal that is not meant to end in this-into-that-repeat-as-wished is a sin according to the rules of my church

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Well the closest we get is all the "man-shall-not-lie-with-man" thing so I guess anal sex with women is okay. This is a joyous day for humanity...

*ahem* Where was I? Oh yes, churches and their rules. I could go on for hours about that but I guess it's a whole other topic. However since I think onanism is a fun word to say and since I write fiction intended to inspire onanism I might be the wrong person to ask.

[ghaidin.livejournal.com]

hm. So that means it'd also be ok to have a woman giving it to a guy up his... never mind. Yeah, never mind.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Well if that's what you're into :)

[ghaidin.livejournal.com]

hmmm. Just stretching the concept, really.

I think ideas are like leather, the more you wear them and the more you stretch them, the better they get ;)

Not that I'm opposed to the act, mind you. Consenting, well informed adults... all is game.

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

The concept's not all it's stretching!

I hereby dub thee the Economist With a Strap-On! *knights you*

[ghaidin.livejournal.com]

Ohhhhh *shiny eyes*
Do you think there's any chance the twin abbesses Eva and Ava may give me their blessings?

[uberreiniger.livejournal.com]

Only if the strap-on is involved ;)

[adonijah74.livejournal.com]

Well, we ARE at war and I agree that kids (and adults) should get fired up about the crap we have to put up with everyday...and I mean the crap in many churches too!

The Bible is clear about who the enemy is and he's not one we can see. We see him IN behavior, and in man's contempt for God and the truth of God. The enemy is the one who is the "accuser of the bretheren" and who appears as an "angel of light".

I also see Christians trying to convince the world that "Hey! We're cool too!" as a gimmick. Honestly, we've done far too much of that pandering and it has made much of Christianity a parody of itself.

The world will ALWAYS hate us. The world hated Christ first. This will NEVER change. Christ's righteousness magnifies and exposes our UNrighteousness, and that makes us uncomfortable. After all, in all of our arrogance and pride we exclaim "It's myyyyyy life and myyyyyy choice!". God gave us this life, this ONE life, and we DO have a choice, many choices in fact.

But God doesn't want us to dress Him up to make Him more easily digestable for the world. It takes us coming to the end of ourselves to surrender to Him. No man seeks after God. God came down to us, to seek the lost and draw them near to Him in reconciliation.

Many people misinterpret what *I* do as re-packaging God or think that I do it as some kind of disengenuous act to more or less "trick" people into getting saved. But you, and any of my other friends know that I actually DO love the kind of music I play. I listen to many non-Christian bands because I appreciate their excellent musicianship and/or songwriting abilities. Abilities that I believe God gave them. Yeah, it sucks that they don't use it to honor Him and that they spew lies and filth within their lyrics, but hey...Slayer, CoF, and Strapping Young Lad ROCK, OK? If I wasn't a musician, I'd listen to these bands, I don't do it to take music and fashion pointers and then try and copy them to lead people to Christ...I let the Holy Spirit do the leading and if He wants to use me as a vessel to reach them, then I am honored and willing to do that.

I've had personal contact with many un-saved people doing what I do. You know what usually surprises them the most? That I like many of the same things they do. That I don't condemn them off-the-cuff and look down my nose at them. Many of them are used to being told they're going to hell and that they need to cut their hair and burn their Megadeth posters and such. I just tell them that Jesus asks us to come as we are. All our baggage, all our hang-ups and stains, and just follow Him. He will prune the branches to help us grow and He will sanctify us. A Christian life is a lifelong journey, I know *I* haven't "arrived" yet. But He is with me, and His grace & mercy are new every morning.

Too bad the Rolling Stone writer doesn't know Jesus. He'd understand why we ARE called to battle and why we are not to remain silent and let the enemy run rampant. Yeah, we shouldn't hinge our lifestyles on gimmick and parody, but we should arm ourselves with truth and never back down. Christ never asked us to do that. In fact, He commanded just the opposite. (Mark 16:14-20)

[ghaidin.livejournal.com]

I was going to quote the parts about branding the cow and the "against queer, communists etc" but it's been referenced to before, so let me just add the:

sobriety and a commitment to laissez-faire capitalism

Because socialized health care is _obviously_ against Christianity. Just imagine, the poor (who, let's not forget are the real plague...what the Bible says about them is an unfortunate misprint) being able to afford to go to a doctor. That's the Enemy right there.

There are a few things that annoy me in this kind of circus event. I agree that Christianity (in my case Catholicism) could do with a little bit more of active faith and less sofa-religion, but I don't see how kids lining up to buy tshirts and caps just because they've been fired up by a good speaker helps attain that. I'd say we need a change from within, not a showy display of monumental light and sound effects.

Instead of telling the kiddos to give up TV, I'd rather try to get them to the point where they can intelligently use the remote. Giving up non-radical friends? And here I was thinking humility, good faith, respect for others and self-confidence are better ways of dealing with different people.

I agree with what's been said: once the lights go off and the teens go out to the real world, this huge mambo-jambo has little effect -save for the money in the pockets of the people who profit, of course.

[raihaannah.livejournal.com]

but I don't see how kids lining up to buy tshirts and caps just because they've been fired up by a good speaker helps attain that.

It just helps the organizers obtain obtain more Mr. Lincoln's for their wallet.

[donkeyjon.livejournal.com]

I actually never went to this sort of thing. Which is too bad, because it would have resonated with me far better than the "Let's all get together and pray" gatherings we had.

The most important part of Christianity that gets me in trouble is that there are simply things that ARE categorically evil and result in the damnation of the soul. These things mean a lot to me, and I won't change my beliefs on them.

The difference between me and many of the people in these sorts of movements is that I don't feel a pull to change everyone around me. This is likely a bad thing, as I should feel responsible for other's souls, but I'm not here to tell you how you ought to behave.

[raihaannah.livejournal.com]

I believe that Christ only tells us to set the example of him by how we live. We show people a "better" way to live, but if we take on the responsibilty of others people's souls, then aren't we usurping God's role? God saves people from their sins, not Raihaannah.

[raihaannah.livejournal.com]

Once again I am disturbed by this, as a person who adheres to the Christian faith but believes that it is patently unchristian to force my system of beliefs on other people.

What I see as the biggest problem with these political christians is that they still haven't learned the lessons taught in the Bible (most specifically the New Testament, which is often their favorite). Just like the Pharisees of the NT, the "Christian" movement today is seeking to establish the "Kingdom of God" here on earth. Christ specifically rejected the idea of this heaven on earth.

[dragonstrider.livejournal.com]

And this guy uses the skin of a golden calf to preach his message... am I the only person who finished the Chronicles of Narnia series?

:)

It's a shame, really, the preacher here seems to me like he's just a couple steps away from being another Fred Phelps.