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He calls it "God's will." What about the lousy, inedible pizza his company makes? Is that also "God's will?"

Call me a liberal Christian and a Universalist if you will, but I choose to believe in a God who wants me to have good pizza.

Moving on to the article, I hate to say it, but while his model society is puritanical, it's not unconstitutional. Nowhere in the United States Constitution are you guaranteed the right to birth control, pornography, or even an abortion. Now if he attempts to create legal statutes against such things in this town, then yes, he will be in trouble and can look forward to a long future of court rulings (assuming this town has a court,) being overturned by higher courts. Based purely on what the article says, however, it looks like this is a town where such goods and services will simply be unavailable, not outlawed.

How is it different from, say, pharmacists who refuse to fill perscriptions for birth control pills on religious grounds? (a practice I do not agree with) Because those individuals are attempting to force their values on the larger society. This looks like a place where people of a particular conviction can retreat from society to practice their belief. And that's nothing new in this country. Amish and Mennonite communities are noteworthy for their lack of birth control, pornography, and abortion clinics, and everybody loves them. I guess there's a double standard for the mean ol' Catholics, however.

This isn't a town I would want to live in, but if people make a choice to live there, (and in doing so, are aware they are giving up other choices willingly,) then they should be allowed to do so.

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It's actually not that odd. That's what greenville is like. There's only one place to buy condoms or porn and that's the shell station on the edge of town. Not even CVS carries condoms anymore and they certainly don't sell porn. On the other hand, filling BC, I don't think he can regulate business saying it's illegal to sell it in their community. It might not be unconstitutional, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal under the current laws. They'd have to stop it by voting on business liscenses, like not allowing pharmecies that will sell birth control to set up business there. Which /is/ legal. I think the fact that he is trying to control all this himself is foolish. A town like that, like greenville, doesn't /grow/. He'll have a hard time keeping families there after their kids are grown. :/

As for Amish/Mennonite communities... they're /communities/, not entire towns... so I don't think they fit this same case.

Personally I think the guy is wrong in acting like this and trying to force people into this... if he is trying to force people into this. It might just be the press deciding to make him look like a fundamentalist moron. Like you said, people have a choice as to wether or not to work, live and shop there. :3

OMG! just thought of something. XD What if it becomes a tourist attraction like Amish and Mennonite communities often do! "COME SEE THE WORLDS ONLY ALL CATHOLIC COMMUNITY!" But I just don't think that chicken and beer dances have quite the same flair as hand sewn quilts and wooden toys.

I think the media is trying to make him out to look more EEVIL then he actually is. He's not evil, just deluded. You are right in that this town will NOT grow much beyond its initial size.

And you're right, you can't dictate that a business cannot sell something which it can legally sell. However, private businesses can choose to not stock any itmes they wish. I can only assume that business owners moving to this community will be ones who wish to obey the policy in the first place. Of course, there's always a chance someone will try to come in and rabble-rouse by trying to sell whatever's "objectionable."

And at that point the little man's dream would be over, because I don't think there's a legal way to stop it. They would have to go the route you speak of, by voting on business licenses preemptively.
Which, given that he's got a team of lawyers working on this, I'm sure he will do.

Possibly, though if this is a town full of people who think like him, the rabble-rouser is pretty much screwed. Let's say you spend $75,000 in your cash to start a business. Now, that's a VERY modest amount for a business, so you're pretty small. Then you plant that business in an already small town with limited markets. THEN, the people in that town choose not to shop at your store because you sell things they object to (perfectly legal).

You'd be bankrupt in a year.

I think it's a great idea. In fact, I wish all of the conservative Christians would go start their own town, move there, and leave the rest of us alone.

Most of us who are Christians would prefer they did as well. :)

I made sure to preface it with "conservative" :)

What I got out of it:

Avoid Dominos.

Check. Been doing that for a long time now.

It is worth note that in at least one of those fanatical communities, up in Iowa, the federal justice system has imposed a sentance on one of the flakes that went against his religious principles, and has gotten him ousted from it. Guy was found guilty of feeling up teen girls, and part of his probation requires an electric id anklet to track him. Amish and Mennonite communities do not have any protection from legal action. If his state becomes one where having emergency contraception becomes mandantory for pharmacies, his will have to do so too.

This is true.

If his state becomes one where having emergency contraception becomes mandantory for pharmacies, his will have to do so too.

Although he's unlikely to have to worry about this scenario at least until Jeb Bush is out of office.

As a catholic girl brought up in a more-than-average catholic neighborhood within a more-than-average catholic town, located in a more-than-average catholic region, part of a more-than-average (at least in numbers) catholic country I´m quite sceptic his plan will work beyond a couple of generations.

Sure like-minded people might move there (don´t ask me what they´ll be working on, cuz I wouldn´t know) but the children of all these very catholic couples will go to university and OH! encounter the "outside" world, maybe get a job outside of AveMaria ... and never come back.
In any case, I don´t see how providing such an environment is helping this gentleman be on the side of good. It´s not anti-catholic that temptation exists, but that you give in to it. I´d spend my money support programs for pregnant teens, promoting literacy among poorer kids and all that stuff. IMHO, Ave Maria sounds like an awesome name for a social program... not so sure about a town.

Yes, it does seem that his attempt to get off the sidelines in the war between God and Evil is only putting him onto a different kind of sideline.

Nothing illegal about it unless it contradicts state laws. My home town didn't allow any of that either. Still doesn't sell alcohol and you have to go to Atlanta to terminate a pregnacy.

Now the Papal States went belly up, so i advise against Catholic Theocracies (or any theocracy).

Which, while I lean Orthodox on things like contraception and the possibility of divorce during abuse or after years of failed attempts at reconcilation (those are the only two sexual issues in which Orthodox differ from Roman Catholics), I think Catholics get the shit end of the stick.

I mean, I don't think it would work, because Catholics are taught that if they are not monastics, they are to live in the "world." But still..

I haven't heard Poor Old Lu in forever

Me neither. I like to whip 'em out of cold storage once every six months or so.

The way I see it, it's no worse than country clubs that shut themselves off from everyone else(Jews, blacks, people on "undesireable" socio-economic levels, ect). Or, for that matter, neigborhoods with home owners associations. If you want to live in this town/neighborhood, you have to keep your house painted a certain color, have a certain type of roof, not park certain vehicles in certain places and keep your lawn a certain way... or feel the wrath of those you chose to live next to. I see a lot other neighborhoods having the potential to be worse than a Catholic town.

In another group I'm in, some girl was saying about how terrible this town was because "OMG! The CHIIIIDLREN didn't choose to live there, so what if they don't want to be forced to go along with strict Catholic standards just because the parents choose to move there?" I wanted to smack my head on the desk at that statement. Basically my take is like

ghaidin's. The kids will just move away when they're old enough. I'd challenge you to find any kid really, who agrees with exactly how their parents choose to raise them, no matter how they were raised. But that's what separates the kids from the adults. If you don't like it and grow up in it, just wait till you're old enough to make your own adult decisions and go elsewhere. If you're not being neglected or abused, the parents can raise you however you see fit and if you don't like it, tough cookies. It'll be over soon enough.

I wouldn't choose to live in this town, but if someone else does, that's their choice. I also have heard lots of idiots saying things like "ooo! I'm gonna go visit, and bring porn and have lesbian displays of affection in the streets and hand out condoms and just show them! haha" This again, makes me realize how immature and stupid these people are, since they're usually the FIRST in line to bitch and moan without ceasing if there's anything that even HINTS at some spiritual aspect of society that they feel might be "forced" upon them. Okay... so in turn, they want to force things that they CHOOSE upon others(that these people have CHOSEN to avoid) when they don't want things that other people CHOOSE forced upon them. I get tired of everyone getting their panties up in a wad about CHURCH AND STATE!!1! (yep, heard that about this town too) whenever people choose something for religious reasons.

Very good points you make here. Although now I'm aboil with disgust at the immature people wanting to go bring lesbian porn to the town. Hey ASSHOLES you finally got your WISH! These people packed up and moved far away from you and are doing their thing without being in your face. NOW you want to antagonize them?

The thing that becomes abundantly clear with "open minded" and "tolerant" people like that is that they don't just want religion to stop being "in their face" and the freedom to make their own choices. They want religion and all who follow it(usually only one specific religion, but religion in general as well sometimes) to simply not exist. That's why they're not content to let people go live away from them how they please. No, they want everyone to be "open minded" like them. Simply having people exist who don't condone their choices isn't acceptable. Sound familiar? You betcha. But they won't EVER admit it.

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